I find it ironic that you’re so worried about the efficient spending of taxpayer dollars.

Yet, by you bombarding the various town departments with off the wall requests for information,
data and proposals, that in order to compile or conform to, apparently for your pleasure alone,
would hamper these departments from carrying out the very duties all the taxpayers are paying for.

Perhaps you should consider paying “out of pocket” for the costs involved in gathering your
“detailed granular data”, “data set merging” and “data trends”.

After all, your requests are over and above the normal duties of those who would be involved in spending important and valuable time for your personal satisfaction.

And also as a side note: Clean up your act. If you want to attend town meetings, leave your Red Sox hat at home and dress more appropriately.

Incidentally my Zip code is 02472 and has been for over 65 years.

Our house taxes this year will be about $7168.00 give or take a buck or two.

I love the zipcode comment from Harry, implying that Matt is a new here and somehow entitled to less respect.
I'm sure he was never a newcomer to Watertown, no doubt sailing up the Charles in 1630 with Sir Richard Saltonstall ;-)

This is about government transparency and public information and has absolutely nothing to do with the dress code at town meetings or residential longevity. These are legitimate requests for that info which the "public" is generally entitled to.

Well Mr. Simpson if you bother to read other areas of Macdonald's blog you would have seen where among other things
he wanted information on retirees and what zip code they lived in. I gave him mine so he wouldn't have to look further.

And yes Macdonald is relatively new here, but that hasn't got anything to do with anything.

The point is that Macdonald is making demands, in a lot of areas. One of them is a demand to get information from the police department on what they do from day to day. That information, and the only information required by statute
is readilly available in the form of a daily log, that he or you or anybody has the right to see in Watertown or any other city or town in Massachusetts.

Yet Macdonald insists that he's entitled to receive this information in a format that isn't available. He even went so far
as to suggest that he be allowed to put his own server into the police department so that he could strip information
from reports for his own blog. This would start a dangerous precident and possibly create a "back door" for someone to go after sensitive information that shouldn't be public. Hence the daily log statute.

Macdonald is a computer wonk that loves to dabble in all sorts of data. Most of it would be for his own blog.

The Town of Watertown isn't equipped to meet most of his demands. If money is to be spent to digitize information
so it could be used in a computer type format, it should be on the town website

I have "bothered" to read Matt's blog. As I said, I don't think this is about the dress code at town meetings or residential longevity. My zip code is 02472 as well, but how long I've been here matters none. Maybe you could get a dress code sign posted at the Town Hall if you're concerned about that, although I'm not aware of any "statutes" regarding that.
You raise some valid concerns, and hopefully, Matt will address these. Specifically, the requirements and costs associated with the data requests.

Harry is a bit limited in his ability to comprehend why people in this day and age would want access to information that should be made publicly available without having to pull teeth. My bet is that half of Harry's sentences start with, "when i was your age a candy bar only cost 25 cents..." or something like that.

Harry needs to understand that times have changed and the current generation's expectation for access to information has changed as well. Some governmental organizations understand this and embrace this as a way to connect better with the taxpayers and voters, however other governments dont and might be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Harry fully understands "why people in this day and age would want access to information". Harry also understands that in this particular case as it pertains to police records, some of the information contained in those records can be sensitive, embarrassing, or harmful if made public. Harry knows this because Harry was on the job and in charge of the computer systems that contained this information.

And Harry is quite sure that you wouldn’t want your private circumstances, family matters etc. open for public viewing. Just think about it. Something happens to a member of your family. Use your
imagination. You want to read about it on someone's blog? I don't think so.

The Legislature passed laws on this. Until they change things I guess that's the way it is.

I’m not sure what a candy bar would have cost when I was your age. But I still buy Mounds bars. Oh
and Good & Plenty's.

I have to go and get my walker oiled up. I wouldn't want to miss all the kicking and screaming.

I'll let Matt speak for himself on his side of this. A question for you Harry: Is there any way for this data to be cleaned of personal information? I can't imagine Matt, or anyone else for that matter, is seeking the personal part of this data.

I am sure Harry is a reasonable person and any reasonable person would assume and expect that the information Matt is looking for does not disclose personal information. Does the data sent to crimereports website disclose personal information? I highly doubt it. Does the police log in the Patch, The Tab or any other newspaper for the last 100 years expose personal information....no. So lets be reasonable Harry. People are resistant to change and change is tough, Harry, we understand. Let it go and embrace change sometimes, Harry, it will set you free.

Hi Harry,

I would have jumped into respond earlier to these comments but Patch doesn't notify the author of a blog post when comments are made. Also I had to work.

The Watertown Patch website will only allow me to enter 1,500 characters in the comment field. I wanted to respond to each of your statements with as much detail and clarity as I could but this website comment area will not allow that. I have published a response to your comments on my blog. You can find that here: http://www.mattmacdonald.com/2011/06/10/a-response-to-retired-watertown-police-department-employee-harry-palmer/

Thanks,
Matt

Part 1

This is an interesting development. Matt MacDonald files for public data under the Massachusetts Public Records Law (M. G. L. Chapter 66, Section 10). He is stonewalled by the Watertown Police Department which offers the data in hard copy and feigns ignorance as to how to produce a soft copy. Matt attempts to assist the WPD in producing the data and in the process save the town money. The response of the WPD's Head of Administrative Services is “I don’t know about that.”

Subsequently a retired WPD employee appears on the scene commenting on the fact that Matt (1) is not from here (2) dresses casually (3) is a computer wonk and (4) wants access to public data.

I find it highly unlikely that the retired WPD employee was moved to become involved in this debate without encouragement. One wonders what position the retired employee held with the WPD. Was he a member of the Administrative Services Department perhaps?

That being said I do so like the propensity of the retired WPD employee to refer to himself in the third person. It brings back memories of Jack Webb and Dragnet. No doubt in response to this missive he will refer to himself as "the retired WPD employee".

Part 2

Finally one very important item needs to be clarified. Matt MacDonald has been accused of "...bombarding the various town departments with off the wall requests for information, data and proposals, that in order to compile or conform to, apparently for your pleasure alone..." This statement is incorrect. Matt's initiative is to make public dta public and share information with his fellow residents.

In closing one can only wonder why the WPD and the Town Administration hoards data so jealously. The information that Matt has requested is table talk at the local bars, diners and doughnut shops where town employees congregate. Why do Town employees and officials so fear an informed electorate? What exactly are they hiding?

The previous commenters have covered it, but I want to add my voice in support of what Matt is doing. He only wants public data so he can make it more accessible to citizens who aren't Watertown insiders. That takes a lot of time and dedication and he should be thanked and supported. If you're afraid of your personal info going public, then take it up with the city, as the data Matt's asking for is already public. Besides, I know him and I am confident he will handle that data with respect and care. I live in Arlington and I would love someone to do that here - I certainly don't have the time, comprehension, and technology skills required.

I do not speak for the Police Department. I am just relating what my stance would have been if I was
still there. Interesting reading below:

Spokeo: Making Your Private Information Public
by James Gunter on April 29, 2010

A friend of mine just sent me a link to a site that could be slightly scary for people who care about their privacy. The site is called, Spokeo. Spokeo bills itself as a search engine specialized in organizing people-related information from phone books, social networks, marketing lists, business sites, and other public sources. Most of this data is publicly available on the Web.

What this means for you is that Spokeo is a place that makes it easy for anyone to find personal information about you on the web.

As as test, I entered my name. Fortunately, or not, I have a fairly common name, so about 1,000 James Gunters came up in the results. However, when I searched by email, Spokeo found a variety of photos of me and my children, along with blogs I had commented on and IP addresses I have used. Supposedly, you can also get results for home values that I may have owned. Yikes.

But there is one saving grace. You can remove yourself from Spokeo searches by clicking the Privacy link at the bottom of the page. If the search results unnerve you, like they did me, you might want to head over and remove yourself from the system.

James Gunter is the editor of The Crime Map and the director of social media for CrimeReports.com.

Harry, I'm really happy to hear that you are so concerned with my public data. However, most of what you refer to is public record and/or self posted info. As we've seen from Citibank as the latest, and many others previously, ALL data can be hacked. So, if you're OK with CrimeReports.com (which you really seem to like) you should be fine with what Matt is doing....right?

Dave, First of all I don’t know what the affiliation is between the W.P.D. and Crimereports.com. The software vendor that I had when I was there has been changed. And I have had no communications with Capt. Rocca or anyone else at W.P.D. Yet.

The police / fire CAD and incident reporting system was set up so tightly that you could only access certain data on a “need to know” basis even within the public safety community.

But I think you’ve just said it best. “ ALL DATA CAN BE HACKED”

If there is absolutely no access to the data, then it stands to reason it’s can’t be hacked.

There is just too much sensitive information in the system to even take a chance on it being accessed. People could be hurt. Lawsuits could result etc.

At to Matt Macdonald. I think Matt has honorable intentions. He’s young, energetic and deep into the computer / software engineering game. He’s asked for a ton of varying data, not only from public safety but other areas as well.

But the public safety area is a little different. It has to be secure.

Again I go back to your “ALL DATA CAN BE HACKED”.

Harry wrote: At to Matt Macdonald. I think Matt has honorable intentions. He’s young, energetic and deep into the computer / software engineering game. He’s asked for a ton of varying data, not only from public safety but other areas as well.

But the public safety area is a little different. It has to be secure.

That's constructive!
With all due respect, and I mean that sincerely, I think the Town Manager and Police Chief will determine if Matt's request is reasonable or not. The beginning of this thread started off on the wrong note. and it's heading back towards productive thanks to your last post and Matt's.
All data can be hacked, and since the current and future society will be digital data regardless of whether I like that or not, that the focus should be on security AND proper access to that data. CrimeReports already has some/all of this data, so that part is a done deal. Now, it's about governmental transparency, done properly.

Cheers.

Watertown is paying $1200 per year to some company in Utah to take our public information and stamp their copyright on it.

Absurd.

WPD is paying $1,200 to have this site put some intelligence behind the crime data in the town. How is that absurd? CR might have some onerous terms and conditions slapped on the agreement between Public Engines Inc. (the parent) and WPD, however I am sure WPD evaluated the restrictions, the CR service and determined it was a worthwhile endeavor. How else would WPD have proposed to get this type of service? Develop it internally? That would be way more expensive then $1,200 per year.

Interesting turn of events. When the retired WPD employee discovers that Matt is not alone in his quest for open governance suddenly the aggressive stance turns passive. Disclaimers are made and plausible deniability is established by stating "...I have had no communications with Capt. Rocca or anyone else at W.P.D. Yet." Love the "yet", can't wait to hear the follow on.

On a more serious note let's get realistic about data, information, et. al. In today's world everything is public. Any system, server and/or file can be compromised, hacked, accessed and/or penetrated. To state "If there is absolutely no access to the data, then it stands to reason it’s can’t be hacked" is ludicrous on its face. If the data cannot be accessed what is the point of compiling it? If it can't be accessed how can it verified? How do you insure that those who compiled the data to the purportedly inaccessible file do not share the information a la WikiLeaks?

I am certain what the retired WPD employee meant was that the data can only be accessed by those with a “need to know”. If that is indeed the case it brings us back to the original point of this thread. For far too long Watertown has operated on a “need to know” basis. I for one am weary of those citing public safety, privacy and of course "national security" as a justification for hoarding information. Why do Town employees and officials so fear an informed electorate? What exactly are they hiding?

@david brooks

Did you read Matt's post? He's offering to do it for free, without claiming some bogus "copyright."

John, I could be way off base here, as I have been many times in the past, but I see nowhere that Matt is proposing his work will replace what crimereports.com is doing for WPD and Watertown citizens. Crimereports.com is funded and developed by a private company based in Utah, with dedicated employees, and works with many many law enforcement and governmental agencies across the country. Have you reviewed the CR website and the functionality?

Crimereports.com is coming up because it proves WPD is willing to provide the data that Matt is looking for.

It's in Matt's other blog post linked in these comments above.

"We also continue to pay $1,200/year to that organization. I offered to create a free service that performs the same task."

David, David and John let's not lose sight of the goal. The $1200 that the WPD is expending for a rudimentary crime reporting service is only significant because it reveals that the requested data is available but the WPD only wants it examined on its terms. The point is that the WPD is stonewalling Matt by pleading ignorance (although some might say that is a believable defense) and hoping that he will lose interest and stop pursuing the matter.

I for one find it ironic (to borrow the retired WPD employee's phrase) that a department run by a chief who was successfully litigated for falsifying documents by forging a signature in order the access a WPD employee's private records now cites confidentiality and privacy concerns for refusing to release public data. Guess the Chief had a "need to know".

To me, the overall goal is transparency. $1200 is a measly sum given the size of the budget.

PART 1: Patch a 1,500 character max?
Hi,

A goal of mine is to have the Watertown Police Department, along with all other town departments, provide more useful and accessible information to the citizens of Watertown.

I believe Crimereports.com provides a valuable, reasonably priced service for our town, one that I think we should continue to use. I do have two issues:

1. Crimereports.com has access to the Watertown crime incident data and that proves that what I am requesting is technically, and financially feasible. This is precedent.

2. The copyright and restrictions that are placed on the data that Crimereports.com collects from Watertown are unreasonable and we should change that. Watertown pays Crimereports.com for this service yet the people that live in our community are legally restricted from accessing the data in any other manner than from the Crimereports.com website.

I'm sure a review of the software vendors took place, but I seriously doubt that the WPD understood nor cared about the very restrictive copyright that Crimereports.com places on the data that we are paying them to access and make visible. My research and investigation showed that there is a way for the WPD to easily, cheaply and technically provide the citizens of Watertown with the same data that they are sending to Crimereports.com - they are choosing not to do that. Capt. Rocca provided a veiled threat when pushed, that they might just take away this service due to budget issues.

Part 2: (Two comments ugg!)

I offered my free/in-kind services as a way of explaining to Capt. Rocca that I think the data that Crimereports.com is collecting should be made available to the public. While I could certainly write and provide software to the WPD for free I don't think this is the best option for the town. Crimereports.com provides ongoing support, updates to their software, has a very useful website and can provide help support to Watertown Police Department employees. I do not think this is the right option but I do think the WPD should offer the same data to the public.

While our Computer Aided Dispatch systems contain sensitive information I am hopeful that our local government will adjust and change policy so that all data and information is public by default on the internet. Then our officials and employees can spend the effort determining how to make specific information private. I realize this is a big change.

I look forward to continuing this constructive conversation.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt

Bottom line with the WPD it's their way or the highway. In my dealings with the Townie Mounties their tagline has been "I understand your frustration". What they fail to comprehend is that the WPD is often the source of the frustration.

Enjoy what remains of your weekend.

Harry - I respect but don't support your personal need to have Matt dress more accordingly for town meetings but if you have the time can you do Watertown a favor and see if we can't have the use of garbage cans mandated on trash removal days? I don't think it's Matt that needs to clean up his act. Watertown needs to clean up its act.

Matt - could I suggest another site within your work where citizens can log the trash they wake up to on their lawn every morning? I have a used tampon, some Styrofoam and other debris I could log

It is quite obvious to me that Matt McDonald is a bright, highly inquisitive and methodical young man. His arguments are firmly founded and the reasons for his research/presentation just and sound. However, I think Matt fails to understand fully the dynamic which exists within town government bureaucracy and the turf that officials protect with sometimes ruthless abandon. Young Matt is definitely a product of a new generation of well educated, emboldened and technically saavy individuals. The town dynamic does not understand or appreciate where Matt is coming from and is therefore highly suspicious of and threatened by his actions. It will probably take many months of relationship building before hastily erected walls are brought down and Matt and the WPD can look each other in the eye, in mutual trust, and understand that their end result is ultimately one in the same.

Seriously Patch.com - why can you not allow more than 1,500 characters in a comment field? How can you expect people to have constructive useful comments with that restriction?

PART 1
Fred,

You are quite right that relationship building will help move things along. I had been hopeful that I would encounter town employees willing to work and collaborate with the public. My interactions over the past several months with the Superintendent, School Business Manager, Town Manager, Mr. Mee (Public Works), Tom Tracy (Town Auditor) and a few Town Councilors have been positive and constructive so there was reason to expect the same from the WPD and WFD. I've learned quite a bit in the ~50 days since I made my first information request to the police department. My goal in this area is to provide better access to the crime incident data for the public but also to test and understand how public employees react to these types of information requests.

I have a clear understanding of the later but still want to resolve the former.

If my goal were purely to have better public access to this information and I could do it over again I would have introduced myself to the WPD in person, before sending the Freedom of Information Request, but because I wanted to get a sense of how public employees currently handle information requests I still feel my approach was useful.

CONTINUED...

PART 2

I have yet to meet the two Chiefs but would love to talk with them in person and humanize the requests and goals. Because I still feel strongly about the usefulness of this data being publicly available without copyright restrictions, I'm going to write Chief Deveau and Chief Orangio right now and see if I can set up an in person conversation where I can better explain my goals and hopefully reduce the suspicion and perceived threat.

If Chief Deveau and Chief Orangio do indeed see value in this information being available to the public in a more useful manner than I am confident we can work together to breakdown any walls that have been erected.

Thanks,
Matt

I have a meeting this morning with Chief Deveau and Chief Orangio. I prepped a few questions and thoughts that I sent to them to help guide the conversation: http://www.mattmacdonald.com/2011/06/22/preparing-for-a-meeting-with-watertown-ma-police-and-fire-department-chiefs/

Thought some on this comment thread might be interested. I'll write up notes about the conversation afterward.

Thanks,
Matt

For those interested I summarized my notes from the meeting with the Chiefs: http://www.mattmacdonald.com/2011/06/22/summary-of-my-conversation-with-police-chief-deveau-and-fire-chief-orangio-of-watertown-ma/

Thanks,
Matt